Naet, posted this comment on Dr Youngquist's thread. Cognitive dissonance has come up in my mail conversation this week. Hence I'm posting this here.

One the strangest experiences I ever had was on Kilimanjaro in 2004. Kibo camp (4,700m) is the final staging post for the assault on the summit. I had been fine for the three day walk / climb to that point, but that night with freezing conditions out, I began to feel cold in my sleeping bag, and so put on more clothes, and felt even colder, put on more clothes and could not get warm. Eventually I realised I was sweating and was over-heating and had to decide to take off all these clothes and lie outside my sleeping bag to cool down. I cooled down and began to feel warm again. Later I puked, and suffering from altitude sickness in this sorry state set off for the summit at midnight with a billion stars overhead, clinging to the side of this massive volcano. I croaked about 2000 ft from the top and had to turn and descend.

Also got a great snow hole story - but that can wait for another day.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5974#comment-564459

€

For me it is New Orleans, not hiking the hills alone.

New Orleans has bizarrely high creativity. A city with just 440,000 people before Katrina and 340,000 people now is capable of being one of the world's major cultural cities.

IMVHO, the secret is that there is no cultural expectation to conform here. This has allowed me to see more clearly, to avoid so much cultural conditioning. And I do live an "alternative lifestyle" of sorts here, and I see how it is better.

Best Hopes,

Alan

I believe there is a strong correlation between living close to the land and acceptance of the limitations of human technology and ingenuity. For one thing, it is very difficult to realize one's dependence on the natural world when one lives in a totally artificial environment. Living on the same 2.5 acres for 30+ years has given me a close connection to place and an acute sense of changing seasons.

A few years ago I visited my sister-in-law in her high rise condo in Portland in winter. One accessed the outside world from a gated and heated garage and the only connection to nature was a forlorn potted plant on the balcony being blown to and fro in the winter wind. I thought at the time that it was little wonder she had no clue about the coming crises that would make her lifestyle untenable - namely that her considerable income was dependent on ever expanding exurban housing developments.

JM Greer wrote a great essay in 2008 called "The Silent Running Fallacy: http://www.energybulletin.net/node/45572

Greer, wrote, "It’s in this context that we can define the Silent Running fallacy; it’s the mistaken belief that human industrial civilization can survive apart from nature. It’s this fallacy that leads countless well-intentioned people to argue that nature is an amenity, and should be preserved because, basically, it’s cute. That sort of argument invites the response, just as stereotyped and more appealing to our culture’s governing narratives, that hard-headed practicality takes precedence over emotional appeals and nature can therefore be ravaged with impunity."

As to how to overcome it..... well that I don't know. I think people will probably have to come up against a harsh reality (not enough food for example) before they can come to see that homo sapiens is just one of many species, inherently no better or worse.

My need to step back and pay attention to what's going on probably started when I was a child, growing up in a house full of very noisy, active women. My escape was to hike through the woods to a pond and fish for a while. Later, long submarine patrols completely removed me from the "paradygm at large" and lent a sort of weird perspective to my world view. After an extended isolation from most all things worldly and societal, I found I seemed to have to relearn things that I took for granted in the past, revisiting former conceptions and often replacing them with new ones. After that I rejoined the rat race and rarely concerned myself with larger questions. My energy was spent on the tasks at hand and adapting to said rat race.
About 15 years ago I left the city to help care for my aging parents (since passed), moving from a metro area of over 4 million to a rural county of less than 10 thousand people, never to return. Yes, I believe that being more rural has affected my perspective. I pay more attention to things that matter and often wonder if all of my former fellow commuters in Atlanta are heros or fools. Do they take time, on occasion, to reflect upon the enormity of the beast that swallows them each day? Do they often wonder at the capacity of humankind to utterly change their surroundings and where this will lead us?
Do I think a 2 week "hiatus" from the rat race will allow these people to gain a better, more clear world view? I think not. Such a change in perspective is progressive, requires time, and if honest is permanent. Some old friends now patronizingly consider me eccentric and change the subject, utterly convinced of the rightness of their ways.
I forgive them, for they know not what they do. Maybe they can't afford to know.

Nate -

In many respects I now know less than I thought I did twenty years ago. I used to be far more certain about things, but now I am certain about practically nothing.

One must be very wary of conclusions based on the perceptions of personal experience. It is so easy to be fooled by subjective impressions.

And education, or the lack thereof, usually has little to do with it. I think it doesn't matter much whether you live in some pristine remote wilderness setting or in a $3 million apartment in mid-town Manhattan. All that counts are the things that take place between your two ears.

I have known people who have traveled all over the world and really haven't seen or learned much at all. And I have known people who have lived in the same small town all their life who are extremely insightful and perceptive.

In my view, personality trumps physical setting. There is a type of person who is totally unreflective, yet who manages to do all the right things to achieve a high level of what we generally regard as material success. This person is often not overly intelligent or talented, yet that person seems to have the knack for doing the right thing at the right time and place. It might have a lot to do with intuition.

Conversely, then you have the person with a Mensa IQ plus several advanced degrees, but who can't seem to get anything on track, either professionally or personally. This sort of contrast has always puzzled me.

Plus, I am not so sure that hardship, per se, is such a great teacher, as it tends to harden one and tends to foreclose one's openness to new ideas. My parent's generation, of the Great Depression, tended to be pretty narrow-minded people.

I also thing that proximity to nature might make some people take nature for granted. After all, if it's always been all around you, then what's the big deal? This is probably why the backyards of many people in rural areas are often a total mess, with old cars, washing machines, and miscellaneous crap carelessly strewn about. Whereas, many urban or near-urban people savor the humble little plot of land they might have and take meticulous care of it.

So, what can I conclude from all this? Damned if I know. Perhaps only that what you see (or think you see) may not be what's really going on.

Hello Nate and All. Yes, I believe the second question would remedy the first and have seen it on board tall ships sailing offshore for days and weeks at a time. City folks, deprived of communication for even a little while do notice the natural world more but it takes time to wean them from reflex activities like making photos and videos for their internet profiles back on land. Most profoundly, I think, is the humility one can acquire in the presence of raw nature. It is a respect normally reserved for catastrophes but one that can lead to understanding the balance of life and humans' place in it.

A few Thanksgivings ago, I started reading the harrowing true tale "Loss of the Ship Essex, Sunk by a Whale" a book which changed my life a little. While relatives and in-laws gorged themselves I was engrossed in the fates of twenty men whose ship had been stove in by a bull sperm whale. In contrast to the feast were accounts of the severest privation as the men starved in their whale boats made into survival craft. Since then I respect food much more and am intensely interested in the agro dimension of peak oil and how sailing ships may serve communities with food.

The artist has his studio. Thinking is like deep tissue massage. Those who have studios should get out some, take in a movie, buy a piece of junk food, and talk to young people in a bar or perhaps just ride the subway. Meanwhile, yes, 9-5rs and other high-frequency socials should hire themselves a spare cabin, and, face the scary silence.

G
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

Today Mr. Pigou's intellectual legacy is being rediscovered, and, unlike those of Messrs. Keynes and Friedman, it enjoys bipartisan appeal. Leading Republican-leaning economists such as Greg Mankiw and Gary Becker have joined Democrats such as Paul Krugman and Amartya Sen in recommending a Pigovian approach to policy. Much of President Barack Obama's agenda—financial regulation, cap and trade, health care reform—is an application of Mr. Pigou's principles. Whether the president knows it or not, he is a Pigovian.

In the years leading up to his death, in 1959, he was a reclusive figure, rarely venturing from his rooms at King's College. His novel ideas on taxing polluters and making health insurance compulsory were met with indifference: Keynesianism was all the rage.

-WSJ 28 November 2009

#1 - Could their acceptance have to do with knowing that in their remote location not much would change for them in the typical 'TOD doomer collapse'?

#2 - The "30 mins of bank hate" show Cashflow harp about a 'media fast'. Not because of 'flash rates of HD TV means you can be submilimally programmed' but because of research into marketing manipulation of consumers. If you are not consuming their media, you can't be influnced directly now can you?
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Watson_Institute/Open_Source/RadioOpenS...
(others from open source that talk about brain/money)
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Watson_Institute/Open_Source/RadioOpenS...
http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Watson_Institute/Open_Source/RadioOpenS...
(The tin-foil hatters may be right WRT flashing TV/Noise)
http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/28/brain-machine-legally-induces-mind-trip/
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/05/hack_your_brain_make_vide.html

#2a Some people have better filters for advertising. Hence the push for 'network marketing' - get someone the consumers know personally to pimp your product.

#4 - In my Monday social circle I have a VP of investment banking. When I discuss topics from the automatic earth he dismisses them and gets angry - yet others in the circle (who don't invest) accept the vision reported on at TAE. The Upton Sinclair quote that shows up "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." may have an effect here. Those who are part of (insert whatever thing here) and are getting along from their POV have no reason to really examine their role. (and the VP's recommendation to date has been weighted to the stocks that are in finance BTW. I expect the cratering of them at some point and the 1+ million to turn into far less.)

Re bumpkins vs city folk I think that rural people intuit that unlimited growth is impossible. Urbanites intuit that is what keeps the good times happening. As in SUVs, restaurant meals, plane travel and so on. They sort of don't want to know different. So perhaps the rural world view is the default natural model and the urban outlook is the dissonant model.

I just watched a TV gardening show with a new segment on aboriginal food gathering, known as 'bush tucker' in Australia. I think it will go over well because it touches a vein of urban guilt. Same goes for the political conservatives who are trying to block Australia's cap and trade legislation. Opinion polls show some 80% want it to happen, maybe not so much if electricity prices double. Urbanites are torn between the need for bright city lights and a desire to get back to simplicity.

#1... yes, if you are a rat and are in a race, it's difficult (or ?) to be aware that you are in the race... unless someone points up/out to say "Hey I think we are in a rat race". In a manner of writing, the people in the US and other developed countries have lived in an urban environment for 2-3-4 generations, at least the majority and for the last couple generations, its been the vast majority. Energy comes from the fuel pump or the electrical outlet, food comes from the restaurant, drive through or supermarket, and the natural world is something that people had to struggle with before we modern people developed the tools and technologies to make everything less human powered and better. If this is what you know and you receive continual reinforcement that this is what is normal and that this will continue forever and only get better, then why would you pay attention to a few people who say otherwise?

#2 While I think the opportunity would help many individuals, I am not for mandatory "re-education" regimes from any source on any topic, excepting the golden rules - 10 commandment type behaviors.... Thou shall not kill, etc... That is a slippery slope.

#3 On a personal note, lately in scoping out regions of the US where I may want to relocate to in the future, I have realized that the driftless area in SW Wisconsin, NE Iowa, SE Minnesota, and NW Illinois (centering on the Mississippi and its tributaries), has an interesting array of smaller scale, often organic agriculture, low population densities, and a mindset of stewardship of the natural world.

I don't believe we will crash, though we may descend as in a cascading waterfall to reach a new equilibrium range (not a point). Lately I have been thinking the worst as the powers that be in the financial arena seem to be papering over the holes in the wall (and floor), but when I read this http://www.frontlinethoughts.com/gateway.asp I was reminded that people have always adapted and as far as we know, we do not have a rendezvous with an asteroid in the future. I don't accept what many here are convinced is an inevitability, that we all are doomed in other words, (except most everyone here thinks they will be one of the lucky ones -whether thru luck, preparation, or skill). I do think we will change many things of BAU, some willingly, some begrudgingly, and some at the point of a proverbial (market) gun. The people who see the storm on the horizon and respond appropriately will fare better. Finally, and in the spirit of Thanksgiving, I am thankful to Nate et al, for the Campfire, Drumbeaats, and all the other postings here on TOD.

There is a tendency for people who have not lived in both urban/suburban and rural settings to believe that the only difference between them is one of "lifestyle" whereas they are really different realities.

Successful rural living requires that the individual develop self-reliance. One often is faced with appraising a situation pragmatically, often with limited information. Then deciding whether they have the skill-sets (or can develop them) to tackle the situation. And, finally, carrying it out.

Further, one is forced to observe "nature." It is simply there all the time and one notices what is going on. This develops one's ability to discern differences. And, this ability to discern carries over to life in general.

Finally, one finds satisfaction in living life for itself.

Todd

Do people move or stay rural because they are more open to limits to growth? Some do, but that's just one of many reasons. Do people who are more open to limits of growth move or stay rural? Probably - at least many consider rural living as good strategy. A challenge when thinking of this correlation is that there are likely way more rural people than there are people who fully accept limits to growth in the form discussed on TOD.

That said, I think a bigger driver to openness to limits are the degree to which one is able to make changes to one's life and whether or not one has "invested" in the future(in terms of children). I find that people who are more willing/able to choose the path of their lives, as well as people with no kids, are more open to the limits facing us. More specifically, I find people with kids who also feel "stuck" on the track their on (or at least feel that any significant change would be a hardship or large burden) tend to block ideas about limits (not to mention potential societal collapse). This is most likely due to fear - if one accepts these ideas, it's hard to continue seeing the world and living as you used to, and to not at least think about changes (and also hard to avoid feelings of guilt about how much to prepare and protect the children in a future world that is stepping down). When presented with peak oil and other such ideas, a brief eye-opening panic, perhaps a restless night, and then reassurance from familiar surroundings and routine to lull one back to sleepwalking....

3)During Thanksgiving, did you have any new insights, answers, paths with respect to our energy/environmental/social situation? If so please share...

Insights? yes. Due to habitat infringment/destruction combined with successful wildlife management, human/bear interactions are increasing in our area. Lately bears have been raiding garbage cans and bird feeders in our little valley because the nearby bear sanctuary has reached the natural saturation point. My sister who lives down the road told her son (city boy) that the bear kept wrecking her bird feeders. My nephew called several times, ready to come "now" to shoot the bear. I told him that I wasn't sure it was legal to shoot the bear. The next time I told him that the bear wasn't always around, only comes by every few days and that he could sit for days and not shoot the bear. That's why they chase them for miles with dogs. The next time he called ready to shoot the bear "now", I told him that he was only a little bear, just trying to make a living, and that even though he had gotten in the trash twice, eaten the bird and chicken feed, fallen asleep on the hood of my wife's Subaru, I have no desire to shoot him. I'll just put the stuff in the shed and take my stuff off of his shopping list. Bears like to be efficient and conserve energy and he isn't going to waste time and calories making the 1/2 mile round trip from my sister's house to mine and back ('cause she always has good stuff)if the odds are low for success. He's just trying to make a living.
I find that this bear is a metaphore for a lot of things human.
Anyway, the story of the bear made it's way through the extended family and this thanksgiving 5 different men brought their guns (all of them I think) to the farm and had a great day at target practice, pumping much lead into our soil. The funny thing is, in nearly 40 years that the family has been gathering here for holidays, this has never happened. These are all men over 30, most with college degrees, city dwellers, who all suddenly decided (independently) to bring their guns (all of them I think) for thanksgiving. So I ask my Campfire friends:

1. Were these guys all just hoping to kill the bear?

2. Or are they all feeling insecure about things TOD? (none of them do TOD)

3. Are we all going to be like the bear soon, wandering the land for birdseed?

One of the major reasons for disbelief/recognition in peak oil, limits to growth, human overshoot, etc. is the loss of trust in the people in charge. Even though, I concluded twenty years ago that our economy was unsustainable and three years ago that peak oil is a fact, I have numerous reasons to distrust those in authority. For example:

1. Congress is owned and directed by corporations.
2. Positions in the SEC, FED, and Treasury are a revolving door with Investment Banking.
3. The MSM hypes an economic recovery based on a government spending goosed GDP.

The list is endless but the above is illustrative of my belief.

Many TOD commenters have made a god of science. Why should I believe that the acquisition of some technical credential makes that person any more trustworthy than the worthies in politics, finance, or news media. Does that person (scientist) have more integrity, authenticity, and objective judgment than others?

As a nation we have lost our moral compass. We sense that fact and therefore “Why should I face difficult issues because someone in authority tells me that I should".

I am able to influence my neighbors because they know me personally and I have earned their trust by working in their community organizations and helping them when they need help. It is amazing the trust that can be gained by inviting neighbors to visit your blueberry or raspberry patch.

In spite of this diatribe, I am extremely grateful to TOD and its editors who give more I could have previously imagined.

Thank you so very much!

1) In my experience (living in a medium-sized agricultural based community) physical and social proximity to conspicuous consumption equates with awareness and interest in the significant issues listed. That is, the doctors, lawyers, teachers, professionals, etc in town are generally educated and on the same page about the issues. Those closer to the land - farmers, millwrights, laborers, hunters, etc, tend to follow the talking point of the moment instead. There is derision rather than conversation. Not kindly said, and I do deal with both types every day, but so it is.

2) I'd like to have any kind of vacation at all, myself, but I don't know that "downtime" or any other kind of time would in any way change anyone's mind where I live.

3) Yes. I've heard the argument now and then that education and prosperity are the solution to the population problem. Prosperity of course is problematic, being generally energy-intensive, but I've agreed sometimes without thinking things through. So I sat down and did the math after Thanksgiving. I took Italy as an example, which has what is considered a very low birth rate attributed to affluence and so forth. Taking their numbers and plugging them into a formula designed to calculate compound interest, what I discovered is that if the entire world were to somehow attain the same birth/death ratio as Italy has, after 100 years the population of the planet would decrease from 6.8 billion to 5.4 billion.

Which just tells me that prosperity and education, however nice otherwise, will do little to get us out of the frying pan on the population issue.

The Greatest Trend Continues, and Comes Home

My breakthrough this Thanksgiving re-inforced a theme that is becoming HUGE to me, and I think is the most under-rated cultural trend coming at us like a tidal wave: The dying off of the "greatest generation" (the ones who remember the Great Depression and WWII) and the advancing age and beginning of the die off of the baby boomers.

For the first time in my whole life at age 50, I spent Thanksgiving with NO family. Odd you may say? No, I was readily able to find two friends in exactly the same circumstance, and could have found at least a half dozen more. Most of us have had our last parent pass away in the last two years.

My former hometown, a small town of 1400, is full of empty homes. They were not foreclosed on, they are awaiting auction by the adult offspring of the community who have long moved away from the community, the homes recently emptied by the death of the last elderly parent who spent their final years alone in the house.

At least three of my aunts have recently moved from their old single family homes into apartments or condos. They no longer have family, and wanted somewhere that woud be easy to take care of, small and efficient to keep utility bills down, somewhere near hospitals and easy transportation. Interestingly, this is the very "lower consumption/low carbon footprint" that we all say we are needing right now. Much of the oversupply in American houses can be explained by this trend: The housing industry went on a building boom at EXACTLY the time it was not needed, but the desire of the young for brand new modern homes drove the buyer away from the old, often extremely beautiful and well made houses of the prior generations.

Go to antique furniture websites: There is a flood of prewar, arts and crafts, art deco, Victorian and Federalist period furniture and housewares flooding the market. Pulled from attics, barns, basements, old houses, storage, the prized possessions of a generation are coming to market.

I know the area I am about to mention does not interest the TOD crowd, but it is fascinating to me: Recently there has been a flood of pre-war collector automobiles hitting the market, Dusenbergs, Cords, Pierce Arrow, Franklin, Packard, Studebaker and Stutz, even collectable Mercedes and Rolls Royce. Most young people do not even know these cars ever existed! The prices will drop, as the market for these magnificant collectables becomes saturated. For those with money, it is a buyers market, and will become even more so in the upcoming years.

Sooner than we think, the immediate postwar market will begin the same process...already I have seen some fantastic buys in 1950's and 1960's sports and sports racing cars, everything from McClaren's, Lotus, Lolas, Ferrarri, MG, Aston Martin, Alfa Romeo, Lancia (the young ask "what?")Mercedes gull wing, BMW 503 and 507, on and on and on...even once priceless Formula 1 and Indianapolis cars are going on the block, the younger buyer not even knowing what they are or what the historical and technological value of these cars are.

And then there are the houses, the great old Victorian and Federalist houses, the arts and crafts bungalows, again, on and on and on.

So, what's the point you may be asking? (I know I would be) The answer is IT IS HUGE.

The financial community is facing an exodus of money from its formerly most stable and most well vested funds: For the first time since WWII, money will begin leaving annuities, life insurance policies, reverse mortgages, and banks will begin emptying trust funds at an ever increasing rate. The volumes of this money is HUGE. Many of these companies have a history going back to or before the civil war, and have never known a period in which money exodus matched or possibly even exceeded moeny income.

With the recent multiple setbacks in the markets (recall that the S&P index when inflation adjusted has been NEGATIVE since 2001) and facing the beginning of the emptying out of money by the most prosperous and most invested generation in world history, we are entering a new area. This MUST be researched and dealt with soon by the small individual investor, because you can bet that the big investemnt firms such as Met Life, Prudential, and the big one, New York Life are pouring over actuarial tables trying to see how they will cope with a problem that will face them for the next half of a century.

Culturally of course the implications are huge, as we now face a generation that has no recollection or familiarity with the music, literature, art, movies of "our" culture. The greatest age of media and "pop" culture is being washed into oblivion. Only through video games have many of the young heard of the Beatles. Recently in a poll of current college students, they were asked if they had heard of the movie "The Big Chill". Answer, zero.

This issue is even more pronounced in Europe and Japan, as they have a baby boomer demographic even more slanted than in the U.S. Euope and Japan face a demographic nightmare that could be almost catastrophic. Recent polls of the Belgian army showed the average age of their combat soldiars to be in the late 30's! This is being offset by a flood of young newcomers from the Middle East, but there are cultural issues there of great concern to Europeans as they ask "What is the "European culture, lifestyle, what will it become?" Some xenophobes even predict the end of Europe as we know it.

Back to Thanksgiving. Several of my friends and I are planning holiday get togethers, maybe even trips, as a group of "family-less" friends (two of my family-less friends are in Hawaii right now).

Some of us have sisters or brothers far away, but they have holiday plans and in some cases still have families of their own. In many ways, we are more in our own element and have more in common with our lone friends. Many boomers never had children at all, or if they did they had few. Gay and lesbian friends are often without children.

It was reported here on TOD the other day that both driving and flying had decreased on the Thanksgiving holiday. I would expect this trend to accelerate, and to spread to other holidays, not due to any shortage of fuel (gasoline was actually a bargain this holiday) but simply because more and more people have no family to return to. What they may have is the proceeds from their parents estate as the once prized, artistic and most well made goods in history flood the auction houses. This is the trend, the absolute unavoidable and assured trend of the rest of our lives.

My view is simply this: If we can figure out how to cope with this coming demographic change it will pay dividends in our financial and even our personal lives.

Thank you, and happy holidays to all of my TOD friends
Roger Conner Jr.

Occasional reader, first-time poster. I have no idea how other people are in regards to acknowledging resource limits and the like because I don't have much time or opportunity for social contact and it's not something that comes up in conversation. But I would like to say that, in regards to #1, I don't make myself aware of these things because I have spare time from not having a social life; I don't have much of a social life because I don't have much spare time. And I do use some of that spare time to learn about survival and long-term trends because in my situation, anything I can learn will help. In regards to #2, I don't do any of those things (except use the internet), either the ones that the author thinks would be a good idea to do or the ones to get away from, because none of those things are really an option in my life anyway. (In case anyone's wondering "why is 'radio' not an option", the answer is "because deaf".)

In regards to the earlier portion of the article, I would also like to say that I'm a lifelong city-dweller (and, okay, occasional suburban dweller). But I probably don't have the same kind of perspective that most city-dwellers do. I've been foraging for wild edibles since I was a child (yes, this can be done in a city) because my parents barely fed me; I continue to do so as an adult because I can barely feed them. ("Feed them" in this case referring to chronic unemployment, no health insurance, and expensive health problems. Every little bit that saves money helps.) Also, I've sometimes lived in crappy places where some of the modern conveniences couldn't be relied upon; even now, my furnace is broken and management is being obstructive about getting it fixed because they plan to replace them in all the apartments anyway - after winter is over.

In regards to #3, this wasn't during Thanksgiving but a few days before, and only partially relates, but I had the idea of "intentional culture". It's like "intentional community" except you don't live in isolated groups and try to help others form groups and social connections with similar practices and values. I'm sure I have no need to explain how that might be useful in helping to prepare for a resource-poor future. Though I actually had a somewhat different purpose in mind... many of the world's cultures and ways of life have disappeared and many more are about to, so maybe it's time to increase the diversity by inventing entirely new ones. I was thinking of taking ideas from evangelical religions on how to spread. Though where I'm going to find the time to start such an ambitious project, I have no idea.

Hi Nate,

As nobody has posted something (as far as I have seen)
about the views of the few remaining indigenous peoples and their views
let me post a few links.
whenever I looked or read certain statements from their leaders or
interviews with tribal people, their understanding of the various problems we
are discussing was impressive. Once they become forced into ``civilization" and survive
in one way or another however denial starts as well.

have a look for example (and perhaps support them)
http://www.survivalinternational.org/

http://blog.survivalinternational.org/2009/11/17/doesn’t-god-care-about-uncontacted-tribes/

there are interesting things as well here (from Russell Means and others)
http://www.republicoflakotah.com/

and some wise words from the past (one might ask how could these uneducated know?

http://www.californiaindianeducation.org/famous_indian_chiefs/

among them (below) one from my heroes when I was 40 years younger
and yes I am still fascinated by him
michael

Following speech by The Great Shawnee Warrior and Statesman, Chief Tecumseh, as included in the following magazine article by Simon Pokagon, Pokagon Band of Pottawatomie Nation:
Published, 1899, (Tecumseh's speech spoken c.1800) "Harpers New Monthly Magazine"
Vol. XCVIII, No. DLXXXVI, March 1899, pp. 649-656

THE MASSACRE OF FORT DEARBORN AT CHICAGO

By Simon Pokagon
Chief of the Pokagon Band of Pottawatomie Nation

He (Tecumseh) generally spoke as follows:

"Before me stand the rightful owners of kwaw–notchi–we au–kee (this beautiful land).

"The Great Spirit in His wisdom gave it to you and your children to defend, and placed you here.

"But ä–te–wä (alas!) the incoming race, like a huge serpent, is coiling closer and closer about you.

"And not content with hemming you in on every side, they have built at She–gog–ong (Chicago), in the very center of our country, a military fort, garrisoned with soldiers, ready and equipped for battle.

"As sure as waw–kwen–og (the heavens) are above you they are determined to destroy you and your children and occupy this goodly land themselves.

"Then they will destroy these forests, whose branches wave in the winds above the graves your fathers, chanting their praises.

"If you doubt it, come, go with me eastward or southward a few days' journey along your ancient mi–kan–og (trails), and I will show you a land you once occupied made desolate.

"There the forests of untold years have been hewn down and cast into the fire!

"There be–sheck–kee and waw–mawsh–ka–she (the buffalo and deer) pe–nay–shen and ke–gon (the fowl and fish), are all gone.

"There the woodland birds, whose sweet songs once pleased your ears, have forsaken the land, never to return.

"And waw–bi–gon–ag (the wild flowers), which your maidens once loved to wear, have all withered and died.

"You must bear in mind these strangers are not as you — they are devoid of natural affection, loving gold or gain better than one another, or ki–tchi–tchag (their own souls).

"Some of them follow on your track as quietly as maw–in–gawn (the wolf) pursues the deer, to shoot you down, as you hunt and kill mé–she–bé–zhe (the panther)."

"But a few years since I saw with my own eyes a young white man near the O-hi-o River who was held by our people as a prisoner of war. He won the hearts of his captors with his apparent friendship and good-will, while murder was in his heart.

"They trusted him as they trusted one another. But he most treacherously betrayed their confidence, and secretly killed not less than nech-to-naw (twenty) before his crimes were detected, and then he had fled...".

Tecumseh research submitted by Steve Newcomb, Shawnee-Delaware.

For the COMPLETE SPEECH AND MUSIC VIDEO, please visit the KUMEYAAY.INFO movie theater.

Nate wrote:

The family in question live very remotely on a farm. . . . the conversation turned . . . to deeper conversations of overshoot, aboriginal wisdom and mitigation of our 'predicament', all topics this couple was well aware of

Living remotely, I suspect they are keenly aware of how quickly nature can kink, knot or even severe the critical umbilical cord that most urban dwellers are unaware of and take mostly for granted. They have to be prepared for when that happens.

The weather makes the northern great plains an unforgiving place at times. Blizzards blow roads shut for days before the plows can get them open. When ice storms break powerlines to the ground, being toward the end of the line means the power company linemen may work around the clock for days before they get the lights back on. Meanwhile, as most don't have the increasingly rare artesian well nothing comes out of the tap or is flushed away unless they have a backup power source. Energy for heating is likely from a liquid in a tank; let the tank get too low before such a winter event and the house will get very cold before it can be refilled. Hypothermia from a sudden fall or spring rain event is a real risk, killing unprepared hunters every year.

On the primary conversion side of nature (sunlight to plants), they see the power of other natural events against which they are helpless. Late or early frosts wipe out crops. When in the path of a sudden hailstorm they can only watch as trees are stripped bare of leaves, the crops are beaten into the ground and asbestos shingled roofs destroyed. Some years swarms of grasshoppers or locusts descend on garden and crops, eating anything green back to the ground before moving on. Drought dry up rivers, ponds and parches crops. Wind-blown range firs ignited by lightning can wipe out acres of rangeland in minutes, killing any critters or humans in their path. Finally, they are much more a part of the rhythms and cycles of the seasons of nature with emergence and maturation of plants and the coming and going of critters than city folk.

Amidst all this they have to be much more resilient and aware than city folk or they couldn't survive there.

Recognizing, thinking about, Peak Oil takes brains, insight and an innate ability to focus on something big beyond just ourselves. Why, in 1973, in a bookstore did I pick up a small paperback entitled “Limits to Growth” and then read it from cover to cover in one sitting, when I should have been doing my course work?

Why do some of us ask so many questions? Dad, is the moon following us? Dad, why are houses outside? Dad, what are people for? Dad, why are mirrors backwards, sideways, but not up and down? Dad, if God is all good and God is all great, why doesn’t he just fix everything?

Some of us wonder deeply about the world, but the questions we ask vary, and depend on, education, age, experience, ability, culture and environment. Oil Drummers probably have similar constellations. My guess: good education, well travelled, high IQ, 30+ in age, productive workers, modern Western culture, own a car, flown in a plane at least once in the past 12 months . . .

I think the idea that "rural" gives one better insights than "urban" is false. It seems to be a particular condition of the US - which I notice since I am an import - that rural and urban people apparently have a particular disdain for one another.

What I've noticed is the tendency for people to want to deal with resource depletion by "bugging out" or creating a "doomstead" out in the middle of nowhere "where the starving city people can't find you when the food runs out". There have been quite a number of studies done showing that urban areas are quite a lot more energy-efficient than rural areas due to the simple fact that people live close together.

I've been running a weatherization project in my urban neighborhood of old Victorian homes - and I can assure you people are less concerned with Tiger Woods and more concerned with tightening up the insulation.

I've talked to many people over the garden fence who have planted vegetable gardens, and whose biggest concern, like mine, is how to keep the squirrels out. Every day, almost, someone remarks to me that they saw this or that animal in their back yard - usually 'possums or raccoons, the latest "sighting" being some kind of large raptor - possibly a kestrel.

I also saw a Blue Jay in my yard for the first time, last week. I keep a bird book for tracking the birds that pass through or visit the feeder.

On the other hand, I've visited many "rural" homes which have the same granite countertops and recessed lighting as you see in the city. Marketing is everywhere.

I think people who are absorbed with the daily task of trying to make ends meet and put food on the table generally have less time to spend on the bigger issues of the day. Most of the "Peak Oilers" I know in the city are more-or-less averagely middle-class, with averagely-middle-class occupations. They are neither ekeing out a basic living working 14 hours a day at the big-box, nor high-level executives required to be on an airplane 60 hours a week.

As a city, though, we do have access to a lot of nature preserves, and the lake, of course, which does give people an outlet, and which does not require getting on a plane. Anyone who can catch a bus can go to the beach in the summertime. We have our city planners to thank for their foresight.

I've been gardening for almost 30 years, in various locations, and if one is a studious observer of the air, the water, the sun and the soil, changes hit you between the eyes.

The reason most people, even in agriculture, don't recognize changes is because they don't work the land with their hands and their souls any more - they treat the land like an industrial growth medium by which three or four standard crops are forced up using chemical treatments, and harvested with machines.

You can be close to the land anywhere, and distant from it anywhere, and I say that as someone who has traveled 4 continents with a backpack.

I got my worst dose of hypothermia just riding my bike on a Sunday afternoon, because I left home without a rain jacket and got caught in a storm. Biking 20 miles in wet, windy conditions really sucks the heat out of you.

The image below was taken in Tibet, which is becoming a curious mix - we watched the 2000 Olympics via satellite at a cafe in Lhasa. Strange...

Nate - regarding question #1, during last year's NOFA (Northeast Organic Farmer's Association) winter conference, the keynote speaker asked the audience of several hundred attendees, "Who here has heard of Peak Oil?" Literally, nearly every hand in the audience went up. Clearly surprised by the response, the speaker followed up, "Who here believes they understand the implication of reaching Peak Oil?" Again, a sea of hands went up. I was floored. I cannot imagine any other collection of people where such a response would occur.

It is unclear to me whether this group of organic farmers chose to become farmers due to an awareness of sustainability issues such as Peak Oil (as did I), or alternatively, whether being close to the land allowed for a more open and objective assessment of this information. My guess is it's a mix of both.

I made a point of approaching two people around me who did not raise their hands to give them a bit more information. Their response to this information was far more open and engaged than I typically see among the general public. While they may have been influenced by the overwhelming response of the audience, I can confidently say that I historically get MUCH better traction discussing Peak Oil with my fellow farmers than any other group, including my own extended family. It gives me hope.

I'm off to do bio remediating, using oyster mushroom mycelium to consume oil deposits. It has worked in the past.
As someone who has lived in rural Alaska in the 1960s and Montana, and also LA, I would say there is no universal group of people with insight.
I know Montanans who's actions are completely suicidal, and Alaskan Oil workers who would make Glen Beck blush.
I just feel lucky to live within walking distance with a watershed with wild coho, and mountain lions a possibility in my unfenced yard.

My Thanksgiving insight:

My family's always known about me being an activist, but this was the first Thanksgiving since I joined our local Transition Initiative and pulled back from most of my other groups. I'd describe them as educated, heavily invested in BAU and not activist, but not a single one of them disputed the premise behind Transition: peak oil, climate and economic collapse. None of them cared to join me though; a few of them teased me about joining the commune. Their reaction could be summarized as resignation, accepting fate, and wanting to go out with a bang (big party) if we're all doomed anyway.

Another insight is that immigrants with a more recent history of suffering and death will be more resilient than Anglo Americans who've had none of that- nothing since the Civil War and most of that was fought in the South. The stories from my grandmother about life on the village were interesting too.

My Thanksgiving insight:

On Friday wife and I were walking though the Holiday decoration isles at the local CVS pharmacy, and a gag gift sought my attention. It was a small sack and 4 chunks of coal. I was tempted to pick it up just because it's been decades since I've held real coal in my hands, but when I looked closer I noticed that the "coal" was made of injection-molded plastic.

I was struck that in 2009, we are now making coal from oil.

I think everyone on earth should fly around the world, climbing the highest mountains, getting their picture taken in all the exotic locations, kayak all the wondrous waters, snorkel the reefs, etc.

Then everyone would respect the planet. LOL

What I have come to this Holiday season is that all the "correct" things that can be done are just the things that are going to come under increasing pressure and fail. So I Quit. Why should I risk my life to save my ignorant community? Let me put it another way. I simply can't do it. My family, friends, and business associates will not allow it. If it were just me alone it would be a different story maybe.

I just received a letter in the mail from one of the longest running dairy farms/cheese makers in Oregon. She is talking about how the market is killing off small farmers right and left and there is a new tax proposal that will seal the fate of many more. Same thing is true for nearly all small, local business such as shoe repair, bike repair, seamstress, any food production, all of the things that are talked about as beneficial for a post peak world.

Corp America will continue to dominate until they can't but it won't go away just because we wish it to.

I agree to a certain degree with Roger about the demographic dynamic. I see so many unemployed genX,Y,Z,ers living off of money that the boomers are doling out and this can go on for quite a while.

Bottom line... America has lied, cheated, stolen, and killed millions to become the Last Empire, Superpower and it is ridiculous to think that this will not continue until there is no one left standing. It's different this time. We are it. The Last Empire. and no one can change that, no financial situation can change that, no resource constraint, no environmental situation, nothing. Any Prez who even hints at powering down the empire will be removed.

Yes this is very Amero-centric but then again so is the world we all live in.

IMO If you are not considering things from this perspective you don't have a grasp of the situation.

Gobble up ya'all!

Its quite possible a rural, calm existance allows us to see the world more realisticly. ADHD is a big topic in our home at the moment what with my girlfriend being diagnosed a couple of weeks ago and my son being tested now. One of the things they have found helps is rural settings. Just a short walk in the woods allows ADHDers to calm down and relax. For children turning off the TV is enough for a big improvment.

This constant background noise of our modern lifestyles is the cause of the problem for many ADHDers unable to distinguish between what is important to concentrate on and what is not. And I think its something that everyone can suffer from to a degree. I found that over the last few years of living with my girlfriend and raising our son that my own concentration gradualy got shot to pieces and I dont have an attention dissorder. In fact I was always naturaly very calm with excellent concentration.

I can quiet easily see why most people are missing what is important considering how most of us live in Western countries.

At least related to question #1: The more rural the setting, the more obvious the dependence on modern energy supplies and the fragility of the delivery system. Electricity isn't "just there" in the wall outlets, the miles and miles of wire are obvious. Propane isn't just there, someone brings it and fills the tank. All of my rural relatives have lived through propane shortages of one sort or another. All have been without electricity for hours/days because some bad driver took out a pole, and for days/weeks following an ice storm.

In an urban setting, it's much easier to take modern energy supplies for granted.

I agree with Nate's observation that distance from consumptive culture gives you more of a common sense understanding of overshoot and a sense of what is not sustainable in our modern culture. It may not only be distance from consumptive culture but also something in the environment of rural areas or natural areas or the silent internal world of the introvert that provides the insights and wisdom. What that specifically is may be just an intuitive animal cunningness that we access when in quiet rural natural environments that we seem to lose when eclipsed by the sheer noise level of modern consumptive life.

But this observation can be applied to those of us who obsess constantly on our species overshoot and the dilemma of the decline of modern humans confronted with the resource limits moving forward this century. I just commented on this on a post over at peakoil.com that I'll copy below.

Think of what we are doing here on this thread. In this digital mental universe analyzing in the minutest detail the downfall of our beloved empire. Some of us spend such an inordinate amount of time in this endeavor that we ourselves have become less capable of conversing with the physical universe. Turn that digital mirror around and look at your own reflection and contemplate how much you yourself are expending huge amounts of energy in the mental universe of obsessing about the downfall of our culture and society. I used to indulge so much in this. I stop by here now only rarely and mainly to remind people exactly of this point. I have returned to the nuts and bolts of the physical world and find less and less substance holding me in dissecting the descent of our species in overshoot. I much prefer the "humility" of simply engaging in the physical world aware of course of where things are heading but not engaging so much in the obsession. It is largely an empty pursuit.

http://peakoil.com/post960528.html#p960528

Well Nate, you have finally done it. On my next trip to Tucson, at the top of the list will be a new Dictionary, the one I have now is copy righted in 1986; and doesn't have the word "Cognitive" listed. However it does have the word "Cognition" listed so I figure the meaning's are close. You wrote;

1)Do you think there is a correlation, whether due to cognitive dissonance or availability cascade, between ones proximity to our conspicuous consumptive culture, with belief/recognition in peak oil, limits to growth, human overshoot, etc? E.g. are people with very active social calendars less likely either to have time or to cognitively process the wide boundary limits problems?

I know that most of the people on this board, are college educated as you are, however let me remind you that there are literally thousands of us out here that are just like myself, without the education to understand the new language that you young people decided to create when you graduated from college.

Most of the people that I associate with are in my age group. Occasionally when I strike up a conversation with an adult that is of your generation, when I use words like "Detritus" (and all it's associated slang words) "cognitive", "Dissonance", and a few others that are used, I usually get the response, "What does that word mean"

The word Detritus, is the one that get's me the most,in my dictionary it is related to "Rock Debris" Ie; Crusher fines in a gravel pit. Then again you probably don't know what a gravel pit is either.

Now to get on with your questions for the "Campfire discussion"
#1. Most of the people that I deal with on a daily basis wouldn't have the slightest idea of what I was talking about, albeit; if I quoted you.

#2. I doubt anyone who gets 2 weeks off for vacation, would even consider doing without the comforts of BAU.

#3. The answer to that one would be "NO" I had dinner (actually) it was more like a late, late lunch. The host's oven quit working on her, and by the time she noticed, and was able to get it over to another neighbors oven it was to late to have a "Mid-day" meal. -:). The bulk of the conversation was about what we are going to do with all these "Muslims" that are in this country causing all the disturbances that we are having. All in all I felt like a fish out of water, and did the best I could to keep my head down and my mouth shut.

The good part about it was the food, "Excellent and there was a big plate of take homes"

I had two near-death experiences:

1. A Ketamine trip - I realized I'm insignificant and pointless in this vast universe
2. A car accident in 2006 - I had heard about Peak Oil before I planned to buy a car. I entered "Denial" and "Anger"... and *that's* when I decided to buy a car. I met with a near-death car accident as soon as I decided to buy one and since then the experience has "enabled" me to take a step back. I entered Bargain and then Depression. Now I've accepted peak oil and have changed for good - I've made the right investments (of whatever capital I have) and I even bought a car because its an awesome machine designed to protect oneself, especially when TSHTF ;)

But I'd say I exposed myself to roughly 3 hours of peak oil content every day (reading on the web, watching related documentary movies, etc.,).

If this much of serendipity was required to get an already "insignificant-feeling" human to accept Peak Oil, I don't see how you can expect anyone to understand the situation we're in with just a 2 week annual vacation. I guess it would be too late by then... and I don't remember "why" I felt good or what I decided for myself in my last vacation.

On the lighter side, what would be the cumulative loss of consumption due to such a vacation? ;)

Question Nr. 3) During Thanksgiving, did you have any new insights, answers, paths with respect to our energy/environmental/social situation? If so please share...

26 things you can do to RIGHT NOW manage your anxiety:

1. SET A GOAL TO CUT YOUR EXPENSES
2. LOOK AT CASH YOU ARE WASTING
3. Set up a THREE TIER SYSTEM for purchases: a) necessities; b) conveniences; and c) other.
4. Consider BUYING FOOD IN ITS MOST BASIC FORM
5. SIMPLIFY
6. SEEK OUT QUALITY
7. Switch over to a CASH ECONOMY
8. GET THE ENTIRE FAMILY INVOLVED
9. Chart out your life travels in terms of MILES
10. Learn how to STAY HOME
11. SLOW DOWN
12. “GET REAL”
13. PUT YOUR KIDS TO WORK
14. SHUT OFF THE CHATTER
15. SERIOUSLY WEIGH WORKING OVERTIME
16. Imagine a VISION for a future you’d be willing to live in
17. MAKE LISTS and MARK ACHIEVEMENTS
18. Keep the LONGER VISION in mind
19. Understand how the “herd mentality” is likely to impact you, and try to GET OUT AHEAD OF THE CROWD
20. PROTECT YOUR MENTAL HEALTH
21. Learn the difference between “HEALTHY PLEASURES” and ones that will burn out your neurochemistry and destroy your health
22. Care for something NON-HUMAN
23. LIMIT THE ‘BAD NEWS.’
24. Make a list of the ‘TWENTY THINGS YOU LOVE TO DO’
25. DON’T TRY TO CHANGE THE WORLD
26. THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX

http://energybulletin.net/node/45535

Ordinary fears/extraordinary times: 55 (real) things to worry about (if you must…)

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/50838

Today is a rare day in which I'm under the weather, so I've spent it Oil Drumming . . . and sneezing and sleeping . . . instead of doing what I had planned—planting garlic, composting leaves and doing my usual one hour of juggling. It’s been great. I am privileged to have found a community of like-minded persons, with whom I can share important ideas about a subject, and a problem, that is both critical and crucial, and needs solved, soonest. The level of discourse here is very, very high.

Question for Nate: How far along is the idea of a POPAC—Peak Oil Political Action Committee?

If you answer, I'll see it tomorrow.

Good night everyone.

2)Would we (as a nation, region, locale etc.) benefit from a mandatory 'meditation vacation', where people would annually get a paid 2 week vacation with only stipulation being that there would be no TV, radio, or internet, just books, talking, hiking in nature etc?

I do think that social isolation has a bearing on how people think about this stuff. In my opinion, people should be encouraged to temporarily unplug themselves from their social network in order spend time alone reflecting on the questions and issues.

The heart of the problem may be the continual presence of other people. It is not uncommon for people to interact with dozens of people each day. Many people are constantly surrounded by family, friends, and strangers. A large portion of many people's days are spent attending meetings and dealing with coworkers and kin. Others sit around watching soap operas and reality TV all day. All of these interactions demand cognitive resources. Even when not interacting, people spend a considerable amount of time thinking about their various interactions.

So a good deal of mental processing is devoted to trivial interpersonal affairs – things like gossiping, negotiating status hierarchies, and the strengthening of interpersonal bonds. Constantly embroiled in interpersonal drama, a lot of people just don't have the opportunity to engage in innovative thinking.

Innovative thinking is also constricted by group norms and entrenched belief systems. Individuals who espouse radical ideas too far outside the zone of consensus thinking are pressured to conform.

Anecdotally, one can conjure up innumerable historical instances in which social isolation appears to have sparked innovative thinking. People spend extended periods of time alone for a variety of reasons. In some indigenous groups, individuals embark on a "vision quest" to seek spiritual and life direction. The hallmark feature of these quests is isolation from other tribal members.

Some individuals seek inspiration (e.g., Thoreau). Others seek isolation for religious or spiritual purposes. For others, isolation is not a choice. Prisoners, some forced into solitary confinement, emerge as pioneering visionaries (e.g., Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X, Hitler).

Nate,
Excellent post and subject. Being in and around nature is enlightening. Not being in and around nature is the condition that contributes to many of societies ills and dissonance. We don't need a mandatory vacation outlawing media access. What we need is a public education and rethinking of American values teaching people that one need not be busy all of the time. Down time would also help undo the brain-washing that advertising has done to create our consumptive culture. Down time is, in large part, what is necessary to see the real picture. Being on the go constantly causes one to be avoidant as to facing problems as well as getting in touch with the underlying truths of life. Only if you clear your brain first can you think without bias. Only if you slow down can you clear your brain.

As for insight from this past holiday weekend: I sure do feel better when I don't eat as much!

First, let me give thanks to TOD for the many new friends and inspiration provided over the last few months since I was introduced to it by Gail in Whistler.

1. Of course.
2. Of course.
3. Of course. To share, there has been a lively debate over the last few days at CoPols.com, our Colorado homegrown political blog found here: coloradopols.com A blogger with the Nom De Blog of JO posted a diary about HOV lanes, the "lone carboy" and offered some ideas for solutions. Participating in the debate, it became quite clear that there is much work to do, even educating the semi-enlightened. It appeared to me that very few realize the extent of the sacrifice, and the immense cultural and personal habits that will have to change. The participants didn't seem to have a clear grasp of the situation, and mostly spoke in generalities.

Back to #2. Being from WI, having used draft horses to farm as a young man, and having raised a garden large enough to fill a cellar for the winter, and having spent considerable time in nature, including 11 months in near total isolation in the wilderness of northern WI in 1972, I can speak personally about the benefits of meditation in nature. Nothing softens the heart and soul like it. Nothing provides a perspective both on ones self and the world nearly as well, imo. Absolutely believe that everyone should experience at least 6 months in solitude, in nature, but there are alternatives. They've been listed here already so I don't need to repeat them.

I'm an optimist. The time in nature gave me an unshakable faith in the strength of my own soul, and its enduring character. I have been consciously out of my body. That in itself was earth shattering and faith building. For a time, I travelled the world searching out holy saints, mystics, shamans and eclectics. The characteristics of the best of them were an equanimity, simplicity and peace that was palpable.

May all of you enjoy the same.

Haven't heard from Engineer-Poet lately.

Nate -

On your first question, I'd like to say 'absolutely' because that would take some blame off the individuals and place it onto society and social conditioning/habits. But, well, there are too many examples of 'simpler' cultures that worked much more closely with the land, whose relationship with the food and water chain was far more intimate, that have also consumed themselves out of a livelihood. This talk of 'living more in harmony blah blah blah' is fantastical poppycock enjoyed by those who dream of a future filled with small cabins in rustic mountains, where ma and pa tend to the garden and junior learns from sustainably-harvested whale fat candles. Meh.

It's an intellectual cop out to promote 'back to the land' as The Answer. Certainly, an increased awareness of appropriate agriculture is vital, but conflating this with one of various romanticized versions (see above) makes little sense and provides no replicable, inspirational example of a future path that hasn't been well-proven by past iterations to be little more than a thematic variation on our current habits.

So, to answer question number one: No way, Jose. can't shuck the buck that easily. I've more on this if anyone wants to tease it out of me, and if I remember to come back 'round the Campfire.

#2: Abso-fucking-lutely. Not because we'll have eureka moments or come to critical realizations about our hyper-consumptive habits, but because we will slow down. And in slowing down we realize that email, the web, Facebook, our mobile phones are truly extraneous and add relatively little to our quality of life. Myself, I take a week or two out of every year to disconnect from all inputs. I challenge y'all to try it. It's incredible what severing the electronic tentacles can do to put you in right mind (I'm an apolitical atheist, so don't try to connect this last with the 8 Fold Path or the Party-Formerly-Known-To-Care-About-the-Constitution). Shut it down for two weeks. Not for society. Not for the wife and kids. For the self. Do you remember your 12 year-old self? Can you see the world through those eyes? How about the 5 year-old version? If not, you're dying inside, my unknown friends. And time off will reestablish these ties with the layer of selves you badly need to maintain if you've any hope of living a life fully-realized.

Was there another question? I'm harried...have to run

As a long time meditator, I agree that we should all take the time to be at one with the universe. I spent 3 weeks trekking in Nepal a few years ago. It is amazing to not see a car or know the effects of electricity for an extended time. What was more beautiful was to see the smiling faces of people who wouldn't know a Manolo Blahnik if it were kicking them. The Nepalese are some of the poorest people in the world but they are the happiest, sweetest people that I've ever encountered. On my way home from that wonderful 3 month trip, I routed through Los Angeles to visit some Hollywood friends. These women, with all of the money and time in the world, were completely amazed that I could just take off with my back pack for so long. "I can't imagine not seeing my personal trainer for that long - I've never gone more than a week" one of them told me. Then the conversation drifted off to "getting work done" (that means plastic surgery in LA-speak), fashion and other irrelevant blather. It all became glaringly apparent that being rich, beautiful and "in the know" probably makes people more unhappy, maladjusted and emotionally "weak" than being poor and secluded does. A gross generalization, yes, but this is my gut feeling.